What follows is a conversation between Michael Kane, grassroots organizer with Children’s Health Defense, Dr. Pierre Kory, and Dr. Paul Marik, who are discussing a new treatment protocol for the vaccine injured, sponsored by the Frontline Covid Critical Care alliance.
[Opinions expressed in this conversation are those of the individuals, and are not intended to diagnose or treat any disease, nor do they represent the views of the Children’s Health Defense. Interviews have been lightly edited for clarity.]
Michael: We’re here to talk about the I-RECOVER protocol. Your organization, the FLCCC, started as an organization of professional doctors promoting early treatment of Covid, right?
Paul: You’re correct. This started in March 2020, when Covid came to New York. And at that time, if you’ll remember, the recommendations from the WHO and the NIH and the CDC were “supportive care only.“ We should not treat these people, just support them. And at that time, the mortality in the hospital ICU was 80%. And it was an absurd proposition that physicians were being faced with patients who were dying and we were supposed to do nothing. So that’s when myself and Dr. Kory put together a protocol for the early treatment of Covid in the ICU, in the hospital setting. And this was based on our personal observations, as well as those of clinicians across the world, and our understanding of the disease and the evolving science.
We started off using corticosteroids and heparin, because it’s an inflammatory disease and a clotting disease, and we were berated by many, many individuals for using these drugs because they thought there was no data to support it. (It just so happens that six months and then a year later, randomized controlled trials were published showing that these treatments were in fact effective.)
And that really was the beginning of the FLCCC. Basically myself and Dr. Kory, and then we got together with other doctors and put together a group in which we discussed treatments, we exchanged ideas for the treatment of Covid, and we then transitioned from the ICU to early treatment, and post-Covid care, and now to the vaccine injured.
That’s really a brief history of the FLCCC. We are a nonprofit organization, we’re not selling anything, we don’t sell medicines, [as an organization] we don’t treat patients, and we are basically providing information to patients and doctors alike.
Michael: Now, though, you’re stepping into a space that is arguably more controversial with your I-RECOVER protocol, where you are trying to treat people who are vaccine injured…I’m presuming from the Covid vaccine? Tell us what the need is.
Pierre: I mean, I think Paul and I can both answer that: the numbers are alarming. It’s well known that the issue of vaccine injury is not only not being addressed, but it’s being ignored and hidden. But the numbers are absolutely astounding. Just from the Pfizer documents, from the trial alone, we knew that there was 1% to 1.5% rate of “severe adverse events.” And then with the VAERS database, we know that it is under reported. So the true scale of how many people are actually injured is extremely high. We know it’s in the millions, especially when you look around the world. German life insurance and disability data show that there is a significant portion of society in highly vaccinated countries that are essentially injured.
And the patients I see are effectively disabled. Many of them were totally healthy before, they took care of their health, they ate well, they worked out, they were fully functional and had careers and occupations and now they can’t work. And there are a _large_ number of them.
I think Paul really spearheaded this effort. We’ve been working hard with all of the protocols…and you know, vaccine injury has a lot of similarities to long-haul Covid, with some important differences. Paul really was moved by the plight of the vaccine injured. Many of them were not getting care, they were going to the doctor, they were going to the hospitals, and there are no such things as vaccine injury clinics. There are long-haul clinics, but there are no vaccine injury clinics. So we saw that patients were not being well served, and they were not getting treatment for their for their clear, huge number of symptoms and deficits.
Michael: So you brought up Pfizer‘s own numbers. They actually tried to hide their own internal documents, and asked the judge to hide these for 75 years! Data from their own clinical trials that they did. The judge threw that out, and said that’s crazy…I was a New York City teacher, and I was fired for declining the Covid vaccine. It is now a requirement for employment in New York City.…And I guess the judge made that logical connection: if you’re requiring this vaccine for people to keep their jobs, how are you saying you’re going to hide this data.??
Paul: In the first two months after the release of the Pfizer vaccine, the data that Pfizer had showed that there were 1200 deaths. Twelve hundred deaths directly related to the vaccine!! They KNEW that. In February 2021. The CDC, the FDA, they are aware of this data. And theoretically, if you follow the FDA rules, if there are more than 35 deaths related to a new pharmaceutical intervention, the intervention needs to be taken off the market.
Michael: So with all of these adverse events that show up in Pfizer‘s own data, what problems are you seeing in people? Are you seeing a trend? Are you seeing a majority of cardiovascular issues, or is it all over the place? What are you needing to treat?
Pierre: So what we are seeing, generally, we’re seeing patients with chronic problems. There are some really important syndromes that have been discussed and defined and papers have been published on them - for example, out of all the myriad symptoms and problems that these patients have, for some reason in the media and in medical journals they have addressed the issue of myocarditis. I will tell you that most of the patients I see don’t have overt myocarditis. A lot of the cerebral sinus thromboses, the blood clots in the blood vessels of the brain, the myocarditis…generally those patients go to the emergency rooms and their symptoms are acute and life-threatening. I think these symptoms are somewhat addressed by the health system.
The more chronic complex syndromes, these are what we see, and the way I define it is that patients have a constellation of symptoms. I would say the cardinal ones (that overlap with long-haul) that many of them are suffering from include _severe_ fatigue. It’s a fatigue like they have never experienced before, they just don’t have energy, they sometimes cannot tolerate activities at all. So if they go out and do something, they’re feeling relatively OK on one day, and they try to do too much…then they’re in bed for the next two days.
And their symptoms have a lot of similarities to chronic fatigue syndrome, which has also been associated with infections. So you see this fatigue, this inability to tolerate activity, this post-exertional malaise. We see a lot of what we call autonomic dysfunction, where the nervous system that regulates blood pressure and heart rate is altered. I see patients with high heart rates, low blood pressure when they stand, and most importantly, we’re seeing a lot of what we call neuropathic symptoms: a LOT of problems with the nerves.
Starting at the brain, we’re seeing a lot of brain fog. Patients are saying their memory is not the same as it was, they have word-finding difficulties, they cannot concentrate, and many of them say they cannot process tasks that they’re used to doing. They find that it’s a lot more labor to do things. So you’re seeing a lot of cognitive dysfunction. And then going to the periphery, they have a lot of sensory symptoms, like burning, tingling, pins and needles, electric shock sensations, cold sensations in different parts of their body. Often, they have motor problems, where they find either they have weakness, or excess activity in a muscle. So a hand will shake, arms will shake, sometimes they will have full body convulsions, and we think what’s underlying most of that is really a lot of inflammation that’s being triggered not only in the brain, but also in the peripheral nerves, in the small fibers.
Michael: You said there’s a lot of inflammation happening. Can either of you speak to what you believe is the cause of that inflammation, and what data and evidence we have that links it to vaccines, specifically the Covid vaccine?
Paul: It is directly linked. So obviously, physicians might try to pretend there is no connection, but there’s an absolutely direct link. First we have the neuroinflammation, and this is related to the spike protein. The spike protein gets into the central nervous system, and we should not forget: this is not a virus, this is a nano particle, and the nano particle has been _designed_ to go to the brain. So we have the spike proteins getting into cells in the brain, and it causes neuroinflammation. Multiple studies have shown that there’s inflammatory changes in the brain from the spike protein, which then affects perfusion to the brain, hypo perfusion to the brain, and the overall functioning of the brain.
We get micro clotting in the brain too, so there the spike protein actually stimulates clotting, and there are actually amino acid sequences in the spike which stimulate the production of amyloid proteins. Amyloid is the protein that you get in Alzheimer’s disease
So there are multiple neuro-pathological mechanisms whereby the spike proteins induce profound central nervous system changes. And just to be clear, the spike protein is profoundly toxic.
The second thing the Spike does, and this is a particular feature of the vaccine version, is it results in the production of auto antibodies. So what happens is, the host - the patient - starts making antibodies against their own tissue. And this can include central nervous tissue, but more importantly, the peripheral nerves. So the small fiber neuropathy that is often found in the vaccine injured is due to auto antibodies.
So it’s complicated, but there’s no question that there’s a direct association with the vaccine, and that we understand some of how this happens.
Michael: I wanted you to talk a little about the spike proteins, and then go a little more into your new I-RECOVER protocol. The spike protein was said to be part of the original Covid “alpha” strain, right? I’m not a scientist, but why, so long after that strain is gone, would we hold onto a protein which is linked to all of these various problems?!
Pierre: You’re absolutely right about that, Michael. From my understanding, when they adopted this mRNA technology, it was with the implicit aim of supposedly…I call it, “updating the software.” They were supposed to put out successive generations of vaccines, which more closely matched the newer variants. They have not done that, and I have a very cynical answer as to why they haven’t: it’s too much expense. And I don’t think they care whether it works or not. I mean, there’s just this rapacious drive to vaccinate everyone, but you’re absolutely right, they’re using a protein that matches a variant strain from over two years ago. And we’ve had successive, major shifts, via mutations, in what these newer variants look like. And not only does this vaccine not match, but there’s now data showing that those who are vaccinated have negative efficacy. They are MORE likely to get these new variants, because they don’t have the proper protection, and the vaccine suppresses parts of the immune system.
It gets tiring, talking about the vaccines. They’ve long been divorced from true science, data on safety, data on efficacy. I mean, these products should not be used. And yet we continually have to talk about them. And there are still mandates in force. And it’s a great sadness.
Paul: The absurdity is that data from Israel, and official data from the national health system in the UK, show that those who are vaccinated are more likely to get Covid and be hospitalized than the unvaccinated. Let me say that again: these vaccines provide NEGATIVE protection; you’re MORE likely to get Covid if you are vaccinated. And this is data from the national health system in the UK, as well as from Israel!
So there’s this persistent narrative of “safe and effective”, which is a complete and utter lie. They are ineffective, and they’re dangerous, and they’re not safe. There is absolutely at this time no group of patients who would actually benefit from the vaccine. None.
Michael: That is a very strong statement. And as they hold onto this and try to force it on people, it just develops a whole plethora of theories of why. It just increases vaccine hesitancy! It makes more and more people say, “I don’t know if I really want to go in this direction…” So if their stated goal is to get more trust, and get more buy-in, it seems that they’re doing an awful lot to make sure that it _doesn’t_ happen.…
In California, they actually have a doctor gag bill, that would essentially make it illegal in the state of California for you fine doctors to do what you’re doing. Could you speak a little bit to the dangers of this bill?
Paul: I actually pulled up the bill now, so I’m going to read it with you.
Unfortunately, what they’re doing in this bill is they perpetuate the mistruths and the lies from the CDC. It’s pretty astonishing that in a legal bill they would actually _perpetuate_ falsehoods.
But basically, what they say, is: “data from the CDC shows that unvaccinated individuals are at the risk of dying from COVID-19 at a rate that is 11 times those who are fully vaccinated.”
And clearly, as I’ve indicated, that is a complete fabrication, and a lie. Next, they say, “The safety and efficacy of the Covid vaccines have been confirmed through evaluation by the FDA, and the vaccines continue to undergo intensive safety monitoring. The spread of misinformation and disinformation about COVID-19 vaccines has weakened public confidence and placed lives at serious risk.”
So obviously, they are perpetuating the narrative, that it’s safe and effective, while in fact the use of these vaccines kills people. It _increases_ the risk of dying. So they are actually perpetuating falsehoods and misinformation in the California bill. And if any physician should basically tell the truth, like we are trying to tell you today, they can face serious consequences in California, and have their license suspended. That’s how absurd this is.
Michael: Orwell, right?! Some of the good news is this I-RECOVER protocol that you’ve been talking about! So tell us about it. What are some things you’re finding that are working and helping - give us some examples!
Pierre: Although we use the term protocol, it’s really more of general guidance on some therapies that have been shown to work in not only our clinical experience but in our collaboration with a number of other physicians. We know a lot of the pharmacology of some of the compounds, and we are trying to counteract some of the mechanisms of what this vaccine and the spike protein trigger.
One of the main things that happens with this dysregulated immune system, is not only autoimmunity, but this persistent inflammation. So one of the things – and Paul really highlighted this - we’re kind of focusing on, is recommending to everyone who is this sick is to do some sort of fasting. Intermittent fasting is one of the main things. And the reason why is that when you fast, it triggers incredible processes of healing and repair in the body, and remember: evolutionarily we’re not somehow supposed to eat three meals a day plus snacks in between. The body actually kind of goes through a period of repair and renewal when you’re not eating, and so intermittent fasting is probably the most palatable and useful option for people.
But some actually prefer to do more prolonged fasts. So that’s one of the mainstays that we’re trying to encourage people to use, to try to bring their body back into some sort of balance.
Another medicine that is kind of a mainstay, is Ivermectin. And we’re using its properties differently than we would use it as a treatment in early stages of a virus. Here, were using it because we think it’s working for a couple of reasons: one, it really tightly binds the spike proteins, so if there are any spike proteins either circulating or coming out of cells, ivermectin will totally bind to it, and hopefully prevent the stimulation of other deleterious processes. The other reason we use it is that it kind of resets one of the immune cells to a less active type, so it has some anti-inflammatory properties, and I basically find that this medicine helps the majority of patients. Not everyone, and as Paul and I have talked about a lot, I have found in my practice that patients are either ivermectin responders or non-responders. A majority of people will respond to some degree, sometimes within days reporting a large lessening of important symptoms. For others, effects are a little bit milder, but generally they really do feel better.
And then we have a whole host of other things, and maybe I’ll turn it over to Paul to describe some of the other treatments we suggest to support the body and try to bring it back into better balance and really mitigate some of these symptoms. Because I mean, the symptom burden of these patients is quite large, they are suffering, they’re suffering in many different ways, and so we are actually using a number of nutraceuticals, vitamins, and different anti-inflammatory compounds in order to try to address this.
Paul: I’d say that the most important thing is early treatment. So patients who are vaccine injured are often ignored by the system, people don’t believe them, they’re told that their sickness is stress, that they’re making this up, that they have psychological problems, and all this just perpetuates late treatment. There is no disease that benefits from a delay in treatment.
The second thing that’s quite intriguing with the vaccine injured, is that unlike acute treatment, there tends to be enormous individual variation. So some patients will respond quite dramatically to one intervention, whereas the same intervention in another similarly affected patient has absolutely no benefit. And I can give you an example: there is a famous cyclist who was vaccine injured and basically was bedridden. He was treated with hyperbaric oxygen, and is now back on his bicycle. However, other patients who have tried hyperbaric oxygen have had no benefit. So basically, what we say is that it has to be individualized to each patient, each patient is their own control, and there’s no simple recipe. You have to see what works for each person.
We have a lot of nutraceuticals that we find are beneficial. I recently discovered that zinc is very important for neurological function, it’s related to depression, and it seems that the vaccine decreases your zinc levels. And then supplementation with zinc improves depression, cognition and the brain fog. So there are a lot of approaches, there’s no single magic bullet, and there are a bunch of interventions that when used together can help a patient.
Michael: So here’s where you can get more information on these protocols, and the FLCCC has webinars every Wednesday evening; you can register for it, get more information on all this.
Pierre: I still remember the early days, when Paul really saw the signal in the data early and brought it to the group. I started reviewing the papers with him, and then I started using Ivermectin in my practice. And I still remember those first few patients: time and time again, within 12 to 24 hours of starting that medicine, some important symptoms would lessen. Either the fever would break, their energy levels would pick up, their chest tightness or soreness would be relieved…
And people were astonished. And I was just thrilled that we had something that worked so well, so quickly, and that patients were getting better and not going to the hospital.
That story has been told many, many thousands of times, by many doctors around the world. I mean, many doctors know that this medicine works, many patients know that this works, and yet we’re still in this war of information where they’re attacking ivermectin because it’s a generic drug. It will not provide the obscene profits that Industry is used to getting. It is another great sadness in this whole Covid battle.
Michael: …There really is a battle against a drug that works. A cheap, generic drug that is working in multiple ways with minimal problems… But meanwhile, we’re seeing the drugs that are getting fast-track license and are coming out on the scene… Maybe one of you could tell us why that is? Why are these boutique new drugs coming out and being promoted by the media which still ignores the existence of cheap treatments?
Paul: Michael, you ask the question but I think you know the answer. I will answer it: follow the money, Michael, follow the money.
This has nothing to do with helping humanity, curing disease, treating patients. This has to do with profiteering and making money. Unfortunately, the FDA works for big Pharma. They do not work for the American tax-paying public who put them there. You just need to look at some of the recent decisions, where some of the drugs they’ve approved are actually ineffective. They’re totally ineffective against Covid, and yet these drugs get approval. It’s a truly obscene… It’s beyond obscene. It’s a crime. And the fact that they get away with it… People should be up in arms! Because these drugs just do not work, and are toxic.
Voices from the vaccine injured: excerpts from the FLCCC - A Public Service Announcement:
“10 minutes is what changed my and my family‘s life. 10 minutes. I’m a shell of what I once was.“
“I laid in the hospital for five days with no help. And I would be begging them, ‘Please, help me!’”
“It is not ethical that they sent me home with a walker and an order for a potty chair.”
“I’m gonna show you what it looks like to have an injury and what I have to deal with every single day.”
“My heart is so broken. I can’t keep quiet anymore. This is a humanitarian crisis. These people are suffering, this is real disease.”
— Paul E Marik, MD, FCCM, FCCP
“There has to be a recognition of vaccine injury. There are no vaccine injury clinics, and there’s an epidemic of vaccine injuries. These are the most toxic medical interventions known to mankind, and there are millions of people who are suffering. They’re being ignored, they’re not getting treatment, and they’re suffering. We know exactly what their diagnosis is, we know what it’s caused by, and we know how to treat it.
—Pierre Kory, MD, MPA, ICU and pulmonary specialist, Chief Medical Officer, FLCCC alliance
“So what is ethics? Ethics is four words: Do. The. Right. Thing. That is what ethics is.”
Go to flccc.net/protocols to learn more